Jack Sharry: Hello everyone and welcome. Thank you for joining us for this week’s edition of WealthTech on Deck. Of the more than 250 guests we’ve had on our podcast over the past nearly five years, one of our most popular and interesting in my view is Chip Roame. Chip is the founder and managing partner of Tiburon Strategic Advisors and the Tiburon CEO Summit. The Tiburon CEO Summit, for those who may not know, takes place twice a year and it’s a who’s who of wealth and asset management, insurance, fintech, senior execs along with top tier consultants and venture capital and private equity investors, all of whom are leading our industry forward. Always a favorite event to participate in from my point of view, the most recent Tiburon CEO Summit took place in Boston in November. It was another capacity crowd of more than 500 C-suite level execs, including my SEI colleagues. Many of us were there. In addition to being a founder and managing principal at Tiburon, Chip sits on many wealth and asset management, annuity, and fintech boards. He has as good a vantage point as anyone I know on where our industry is today and a keen eye for what’s next. So Chip, welcome back to WealthTech on Tech. Great to have you here.
Chip Roame: Great, Jack. Thanks for having me back.
Jack Sharry: So Chip, your state of the industry address is always the highlight of each Tiburon CEO Summit, at least from where I sit and most of the people I talk to, you cover a lot of ground quickly and with an incisiveness that participants always look forward to. What are some of the key themes that you highlighted this year and want to maybe expound on, explain a little bit further?
Chip Roame: Sure, thanks, Jack. So I guess at Tiburon a few weeks ago, I structured my keynote into five major themes. So I’ll lay those out for you. So I talked about how clients or investors or prospects are evolving, so how the end client is changing. I talked about how the wealth channels are changing. So full service brokers versus independent advisors, et cetera. I talked about how investment management products are evolving. You know, obviously the big trend to ETFs and all the excitement about private markets. I talked about business strategies, kind of running a wealth management firm, things like human capital and tech, et cetera. Lead gen’s a big issue there. And I finished with how the industry structure is changing, whether venture capital is supporting industry, whether M&A is happening, whether IPOs are happening. So clients, channels, products, strategies, and the industry structure is what I talked about, Jack.
Jack Sharry: Terrific. So why don’t you take them one at a time? There’s five big topics and I’m sure you’ll zero in on that which you think to be most important. So have at it.
Chip Roame: Sure. So I guess in the client one or prospect or investor or consumer, however you want to think about this. The big news that you read every day is the generational wealth transfer. So every day, it’s almost always the same Cerulli report everyone’s quoting at 80 trillion or 120 trillion, depending on what time band you’re looking at. But we have this big generational wealth transfer, which to be clear so that people are clear what they’re talking about. This is baby boomers giving away their money that will primarily go to Gen X and some to millennials. So that’s what the generation of wealth transfer is. I talked about it’s probably a little overstated at this point. I think there’s a few things we forget about. We forget about the liquidation that the boomers have done already or are doing right now, which is downsizing houses and rolling over 401k plans and selling small businesses. That’s the liquidation, that’s already happened or is happening right now. The wealth transfer is mostly in front of us still. People forget about the horizontal wealth transfer, know, spouse to spouse. People forget about money that goes to charity. People forget about the fact that we’re living longer and healthcare will eat up some of that money. So, any case, so the generational wealth transfer is the headline, but maybe it’s a little overstated. Second point about consumers is there’s some emerging segments that are becoming super interesting. Gen X clearly is the big growing segment, millennials further out on the horizon. The mass affluent, because a lot of firms are chasing the high net worth, the mass affluent becomes an opportunity. Women led households are a big opportunity right now. The geographical migration to places like Florida and Texas is a big example, a big opportunity right now. And I wrapped up the client section, Jack, I might talk about, thinking about these new clients and how they want different products and different business models. So this is the emergence of robo advisors and hybrid digital and episodic advice and things like that. It’s also the emergence of crypto and betting markets and prediction markets and all those kinds of things. So, any case, long-winded story, generational wealth transfer may be a little overstated from emerging segments out there and maybe some new products and service models for them.
Jack Sharry: And I’m assuming you hear the term hyper personalization way too frequently for my taste. But really what you’re saying is everyone’s a little bit different and they want to be served a little bit differently or do you disagree? Do you think they there’s more of a mass effort? Talk about that if you would.
Chip Roame: I agree. I think the hyper personalization, even personalization is probably a little over talked given that the vast majority of wealth firms do use models and things like that. So it may not be as personal as we’re all pretending it is right now. I think there are some underlying product and service models that allow this. You know, AI and even just generally technology in general allows service to be much more personal. Secondly, the product of direct indexing lets the account be more personal. So I think there are some glimmers of personalization in there. Again, it might be a little over-talked at this point.
Jack Sharry: That’s great Chip, appreciate that. Talk a little bit if you would about channels, I’d like to hear more about that.
Chip Roame: Yep. Okay. So I think the big aha in channels that people get wrong or industry pundits get wrong is that the full service brokerage firms, the Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo, UBS, the Ed Jones, Ameriprise, et cetera, those firms still have the highest dollar net flows. And I think very quickly everyone gets caught up in the independent advisor channel and talks a lot about how that’s the “fastest growing channel.” It is the fastest growing channel, Jack, in percentage terms because it’s smaller, but it’s not the fastest growing in dollar terms. So meaning more net new dollars goes to the full service brokerage firms than to any other channel. Second place is the discount brokerage channels. More money flows to retail discount brokerage than does to independent advisors. So independent advisors are the third channel in dollar flows, not in percentage terms. But if you’re really caught up in percentage terms, it is the other way around. But in dollar flows, which is what we care about, because that’s really consumer sentiment. Where are they putting their money? If you take that as a given, which is maybe a surprising given to some, then you say, well, what’s going on in each of those three categories? In the full service brokerage category, we jokingly call it the Morgans. It’s Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan, who just have dominant flows. Their flows are $200, $250 billion each per year. Whereas players in that category, other players like Merrill has flows of 25 billion. Morgan Stanley’s 250. We gotta keep those things in perspective. Also in the full service category, you have firms like Ed Jones and Ameriprise that are doing quite well just at a lower echelon client. They’re not serving the five and $10 million household, but they’re doing fine as well. In the discount brokerage category, again, you have a little separation here too. The Fidelities and Schwabs are really competing with the Ed Jones and the Ameriprise of the world on the retail side. Then the other discount brokerage firms and even other fintechs, everyone from Robinhood, who we all think about, but eToro, Acorn, Stash, all the online banks, et cetera, SoFi, et cetera, all going after collecting millions of eyeballs and they will build out their offers and compete over the next couple of decades. In the independent advisor arena, it’s really all about consolidation. It’s like to like, meaning RIAs buying each other, but they’re also buying the OCIO firms, they’re buying the retirement plan advisors, so a lot of consolidation going on there. Last point about channels is no one’s staying in their lane. So the UBSs and the Morgan Stanleys coming down market. So think about Morgan Stanley goes and buys E-Trade. So they come down to serve the mass market, right? Meanwhile, Schwab’s raising their minimum on the referral program saying, no, we can serve high net worth people in our retail business. So you got firms coming down and firms going up at the same time. So full service brokers winning in dollars, discount brokers second, independent advisors third, independent advisors growing the fastest percentage terms and no one’s staying in their lane. That’s kind of the story there.
Jack Sharry: Interesting. Point number three, keep going.
Chip Roame: Okay, so point number three is product. So in investment products right now, you really have a huge bifurcation going on between really, really inexpensive beta. You know, everyone’s, passive investing is here to stay. ETFs are taking over the world. Direct indexing is a big deal, but maybe has a little lower flows than everyone thinks. Then meanwhile, everyone’s talking about alternatives and specifically they’re talking about private markets and really specifically they’re talking about private credit, which is getting the flow. So kind of this bifurcation going on between really, really cheap ETFs versus relatively expensive private credit funds on the other end. So a lot of noise in there, a lot of action. There are a few firms distinguishing themselves, BlackRock, Fidelity, JP Morgan, and Vanguard have dominant flows in investment management to be clear. As I said, ETF flows are over a trillion dollars a year. Give you a perspective, direct indexing flows are about 75 billion per year. So 1.1 trillion versus 75 billion, a pretty big different number. Long shorts getting a lot of attention here, Jack. Again, the flows aren’t as big as maybe people think they are, but a lot of… Long shorts getting lower flows than people think it is. Then in the private markets arena, one big interesting thing right now is private equity and venture capital and private credit funds versus if you noticed recently a couple weeks ago, Jack, Schwab bought Forge, and Morgan Stanley bought a firm as well in the same business, which is getting you exposure to individual private companies, not to funds, but to individual private companies. So interesting how this one plays out. Will it be getting the mass affluent into funds or getting them access to private companies? Two different potential opportunities.
Jack Sharry: What I’m hearing on both the channels and the product conversations seems like the bigger getting bigger and stronger. Is that your take?
Chip Roame: I think that’s true. Yeah, definitely in channels as I referred to, the Fidelitys and JP Morgans and Schwabs and Morgan Stanleys. I mean, their flows are just dominant. There are hundreds of billion dollars a year. And other firms that we all respect have flows that are tens of billions of dollars a year. So really distinguishing themselves. The same is true in the investment arena, investment management, which is BlackRock, Fidelity, JP Morgan and Vanguard. Again, hundreds of billions of flows. You read things like, Blackrock obviously dominates in iShares, everyone knows that, but they also have the biggest crypto ETF now. They also are a big player in private markets. These big firms are just becoming multi-dimensional. It’s very, very impressive, actually.
Jack Sharry: Any guesses to what… more than a guess, informed observation, on why that’s happening? What are some of the big factors that the big are getting bigger and stronger? I bet there’s some obvious ones, but anything in particular? They seem to be, I don’t know which comes first, the chicken or the egg. They seem to get out in front of these things and then they drive them hard. But what’s your take on why this is happening?
Chip Roame: Yeah, I think the answers are different for why big distribution companies are getting bigger versus investment firms. The investment firms, I think it’s all about distribution, right? So if you’re BlackRock or Fidelity and you have distribution everywhere to every other brokerage firm, bank, et cetera, you then go buy, you know, you buy in Aladdin or you buy a private markets firm or you buy something and you’re able to sell the ga-jeebies out of that thing. Because you already have the distribution, right? Versus an upstart company that might have a better product even at the end of the day, but if they don’t have the inbuilt distribution, it’s a long road to hoe. So I think the big will continue to get bigger. Actually, there’s some firms that people maybe don’t pay as much attention to that I think are impressive in the investment management arena. Firms like Franklin Templeton, kind of a long only manager, maybe expensive funds, et cetera. Maybe the trends were not their friend, but they’ve redeployed their cash flows and they’ve bought private markets firms and they’ve bought tech firms and things like that. I find that impressive. They’re kind of changing the makeup of their company. Maybe they were in the wrong place, but they used their capital to buy their way into the right place. So I think that’s why investment firms are winning. The channel firms are winning because they have lead gen figured out. So if you’re Fidelity, your master lead gen solution was record keeping for 401k plans and then capturing the rollovers. If you’re Morgan Stanley, you go buy a couple of stock option plan companies and you become the big player rolling money out of stock option plans. Or you buy E-Trade and you’re trading up their retail clients. If you’re Schwab, you have… all over the country, right? So I think these are very impressive lead gen strategies. And I think that’s why the distribution companies are winning.
Jack Sharry: So talk about the last two items, which are some combination of tech and lead gen and just being smart in terms of how you go to markets, talk about those two. They’re different, but they’re in many ways are combined, it seems.
Chip Roame: Yeah. So I think that the fourth of my five categories, Jack, was a bit we call business strategy. So you’re the CEO of a wealth management firm. What are your real business strategies you have to figure out? Number one is lead gen. You know, this seems to be a crisis in the industry. There’s three or four big markets. You know, there’s the whole referral strategy, which is client referrals or professional referrals or custodian referrals or now you can buy leads from the paid lead gen sources like a SmartAsset. So there’s that whole category. There’s the whole digital, create your own leads, whether it’s social media or influencer, even finfluencers. And then third, everyone seems to have discovered Fidelity’s market, which is the workplace, that somehow you want to participate in the workplace and capture the rollovers. So there’s this whole lead gen category, that’s one. The second one, I think, is the advisor movement. So I’m not sure if your listeners have good perspective for this. I’ll tell you three things that are about equal in size, but we don’t associate them. One is organic growth. Organic growth per year is somewhere between $1.5 and $2 trillion. That’s organic net new clients. A similar amount of money moves by advisors moving their book each year. So about $1.5 to $2 trillion. That’s not really growth in the industry. It’s just a advisor repurposing him or herself somewhere else. And then third is M&A. About $1.5 to $2 trillion gets acquired each year. So it’s interesting for me to think about across these three fundamentally different strategies of organic growth, recruiting advisors, and buying advisors. Those three things are roughly equal in size. So I’d like to call that out, Jack.
Jack Sharry: Yeah, that’s interesting because you read about it every day in the news, industry news about organic growth being such a challenge. And so I guess the organic growth formula is the three things you mentioned or do you have a different idea? If you’re advising firms, which I know you do from time to time or sit on boards and what have you, what’s your counsel? What’s your advice in terms of how to grow your business? Everyone seems to be trying to intent on that. And it’s some combination of tech and product and distribution and all the things you’ve talked about so far with more to come. What’s your counsel? How do you grow in a more challenging market? So you basically said two thirds of the money moves around one way or another and one third of the money is actual true organic growth. So how do you do organic growth?
Chip Roame: Yeah, it’s a great question because obviously the market, meaning the private equity firms or the stock market, values much higher organic growth than it does inorganic growth. So you want to be an organic grower at the end of the day. I’ll tell you, an interesting role I’ve carried out for myself, as you mentioned, I sit on nine or 10 corporate boards, almost all of which are private equity backed companies. I like the rigor of the thinking of private equity companies. One of the pieces of that rigor is calculating your CAC, knowing your cost to acquire a client. And certainly your cost to acquire a client will always be lowest in digital marketing, in social media, where you self-create the lead, right? That’s gonna be the cheapest lead, right? As opposed to buying a lead from SmartAsset or as opposed to getting a lead from Schwab where they’re gonna take a skim on your revenues or as opposed to having to run a record keeping system where you might lose money while you’re the record keeper to get the rollover later, right? All of those other strategies are nice to haves, but they all have higher CACs. So the strategy, if you have the skill, is certainly digital marketing, is social media marketing, is influencers and finfluencers. So the firms that will win with the lowest CAC will always be those that create their own leads.
Jack Sharry: So one of the things that just as an observer, try to be a keen observer of all this kind of stuff is that the Morgans, as you highlighted earlier, have figured it out where they’re dominant in terms of net new asset flow. And it seems to me they’ve figured out, I’m a student of both, how to integrate and coordinate all the various functions that need to happen. That’s tech, that’s product, that’s sales capability. Whatever the array of things that one firm must do. And I’m not sure what my question is, but I’m just fascinated to see that’s what, they figured out how to make it all work together. Any observations there?
Chip Roame: I think these firms that are looking around the corner are very, very impressive. I really highly appreciate the Morgan Stanley story, you know. When people were looking at buying E-Trade, everyone looked at acquiring E-Trade, but everyone thought of it as a discount brokerage firm that made the EBITDA that it made. Morgan Stanley saw it as a lead gen source, right? They saw themselves acquiring lead gen. So they can, sure, we can service those clients in their discount brokerage arm, but some of them will get wealthy and we will trade them up to our Morgan Stanley advisors. Meanwhile, E-Trade was also the biggest, the second biggest processor of stock options, right? So again, is being in stock option processing all that exciting? Maybe not, but is capturing the money coming out of stock options amazing. That’s a great business, right? So I think the ability to see the ability to see E-Trade and the other firm they bought was a firm called Solium Capital. To be able to see these firms as lead gen sources as opposed to what they were, a discount brokerage firm and a record keeper is a very, very impressive strategy.
Jack Sharry: Yeah, you mentioned Franklin Templeton, another firm I’m a fan, student of. That looking around the corner that you just mentioned, where basically Franklin Templeton, with all due respect, was an active manager who was losing assets and didn’t seem to be going anywhere, not anywhere, but was going in a direction they didn’t want to continue. And watching Jenny Johnson and what she has put together, I find rather impressive about how you look around the corner, how you combine all the things that they’re combining, which is private markets and tokenization and technology and on and on and on. They’re reconstituting themselves, largely born of it seems, looking around the corner.
Chip Roame: I think that’s exactly right, Jack. I think, different data would tell you, I think, and I think this is accurate. Franklin Templeton today is about 18 or 19% of their revenues come from private markets, right? That’s amazing, to take a active long only kind of value and fixed income fund manager. And, in a decade or whatever it was, turn it into a 20% private markets firm, which they acquired earlier on. Now today try to buy a private market and the multiple is crazy, right? So specifically Jenny Johnson, who you acknowledge, I think is exactly the one who did it and said, let’s buy into private markets, use our cash that way. And now multiples have gone up and private markets have boomed, good for them. Similar move into crypto, a movement into wealthtech. So I do think her and that firm in general has just been a savvy mover.
Jack Sharry: Yeah, I fully agree. So I think you’ve covered some of the last two items, but where do you want to go next in terms of your observations?
Chip Roame: Just let me leave you with industry structure so I think this is always interesting to everyone, there’s a lot of change to the industry structure. So give your listeners context, we at Tiburon think we follow three sub markets, so we follow the investment management market so someone like Franklin Templeton we were just talking about, we follow the wealthtech market so think about Envestnet or Orion or Addepar or someone, and we follow the wealth management market so think Schwab or Fidelity or Merrill or a big RIA, right? So investment management, wealthtech, and wealth management. And then our question, Jack, is there venture capital flowing into each of those sub markets to support the growth? Is there M&A happening to consolidate them? And/or is there IPOs happening to take companies public? And I’ll give you the short data. So we’re recording here at the end of 2025. In 2024, and I’ll update this in a second, but in 2024, there were hundreds of M&A transactions in each of the three sub markets, hundreds of them. So a lot of M&A activity happening. The only fintech, or the only venture capital investing was into wealthtech. So the venture capitalists are backing the wealthtech companies. They’re not really backing investment managers. They’re not really backing wealth firms. And then there is no IPO trend. There’s one or two IPOs each year in each of the markets. So that was 2024’s data. 2025’s data, assuming nothing changes in the next few weeks, will be exactly the same. Hundreds of M&A transactions across all three markets. No real IPOs happening right now. So I think that’s interesting. So to your point earlier, you had asked why are the big getting bigger? Aside from all the reasons you and I said earlier, it’s also they’re consolidating. The big are buying, right? So think about in the wealth category. We’re going to have some trillion dollar RIAs here. We jokingly call it the consolidation of the consolidators where you’re going to wake up one day and Mariner will have bought Mercer or Mercer will have bought Captrust or whatever it will be. And they’ll catapult themselves up the ranking to have hundreds of billions and ultimately trillions of dollars. Meanwhile, we already had the run on the wealthtech companies. You know, the Envestnets and the Orions bought up lots of single point solutions. So the big are also getting bigger because they can afford to, because they’re buying the others.
Jack Sharry: So one of the things we haven’t talked about, and no good podcast can go forward without talking about AI. What is AI’s role in all this? Because that is often thought to be a way to create greater efficiency and also, frankly, lower costs if it’s done right. What are your thoughts on all that?
Chip Roame: Yeah, I think AI plays two roles. There is a small camp out there. I’d say about 10% of Tiburon members believe that AI will replace advisors, that AI will be a service model unto itself. I’m probably not in that category. The vast majority of Tiburon members are not in that category, but there are, there is a minority who are, who believe that AI is just the next coming of robo advisors and it’s out there on the horizon. So maybe. I’m not sure I believe that. I think more likely AI does really two things. You said efficiency. I think that’s a big one. It’s also again, going back to an earlier point you made, it’s personalization. So AI allows both personalization and efficiency of the back office. Today is AI all that widely used in the wealth channel? Not really. I mean, people talk about note taking or something like that. I mean, these are not the most sexy functions yet. But I do think it’s out on the horizon and it’s coming. I think it’s a big deal, you know, still in the two, three, four, five year out mode right now.
Jack Sharry: So you’ve covered a lot of ground. Anything else we should be asking that we haven’t asked? Anything else you want to add? You’ve covered a tremendous amount of ground. I like the way you’ve put that together in terms of where the money is flowing from an investment standpoint into the businesses, whether it’s wealth or asset management or what have you. But anything further that you want to make sure the audience hears about?
Chip Roame: I just think that keeping a top-down perspective on the trends is important, Jack. And so understanding that certain client segments are becoming more attractive, making sure you really appreciate where the dollars are flowing. So when I think about the channels, I really, really think hard about the fact that Fidelity has $600 billion of flows. So whatever Fidelity is doing is working. It’s not my opinion. Similarly, in the investment arena, BlackRock’s flows are phenomenal. So you gotta pay attention to that. So I’d really think hard about, if I were a listener, maybe you call it competitor profiling, but don’t get caught up in all the news that gets reported every day. Focus on which firms are actually gathering the most money because they’re the ones that are doing something right because people are putting their money there, as opposed to everyone’s new product announcement, which could clutter your thinking.
Jack Sharry: So any key takeaways above and beyond that, that’s a big one for sure. But among the five different topic areas that you covered, anything you want to zero in on and say these are critical in terms of going forward, less about what’s going on right now. But if you’re advising someone, where’s an important area to focus?
Chip Roame: I think two things. One, I think lead gen is a big deal right now. And I think those that figure out lead gen are going to win right now. So if I were a wealth firm, I would be trying to figure out lead gen for my advisors, figure it out the home level, not having every advisor worry about community networking and building a local relationship with a CPA. That stuff’s all fine. But I think figuring out lead gen in a institutionalized way is a big deal. I think number two is I think the tech platforms need to sort themselves out. I don’t say that in a directive way. I think the tech platforms will sort themselves out. So you’ve seen some of the portfolio accounting systems struggle. You’ve seen the custodians make noise about pushing into the tech world. So I think there’s going to be some new business models here. You’re going to see custody and tech merge together here over the next couple of years. And then lastly, I think the industry structure is going to change a lot. I think all this M&A we’re talking about right now is the beginning, not the end. I think they’re going to see more M&A transactions in the years to come, not less. So I think you’re going to see a huge consolidation in a fragmented… I think investment management, wealth management, and wealthtech are all very fragmented. I think all of them will consolidate.
Jack Sharry: Yep. And I think more of what we talked about earlier, which is the big will get bigger is my two cents in the matter, because just economies of scale and all the rest of it, once they’ve got their strategy set and they’re executing and so on. But that’s maybe for another day. So Chip, final question. This has been great. Really enjoyed it as always. And I heard it all at Tiburon recently. And it’s fun to hear it again, because it just reaffirms my thinking, which keeps evolving. I’m sure like everybody else that just what works and what doesn’t. So thank you for all that. Now a more personal question we’ve asked it a few times, you’ve been on the show a few times with us. What do you do outside of work that, and I know you have a lot of interest all over the place and literally all over the world… What do you do outside of work that people might find interesting or surprising that you’re particularly passionate about or excited about? Fill us in.
Chip Roame: Okay, so I’m not sure what I shared in the past, Jack, but I’ll just kind of, I’ll speak top of my mind as we sit here in December. I give you two of them. Number one, the Tiburon team is in New York today. We’re receiving an award this evening for our charitable effort, which is called the Tiburon Impact Adventures. We build homes for underprivileged families in Mexico. We’ve been doing it for about 10 years. And we happen to be winning an award in New York tonight. So I’m very passionate about that. We fly to San Diego, cross the border as a group. We can build a, about 12 or 15 of us can build a home in two days. We now take a hundred people or more, build six or eight houses every year, and we’re back home in two days. So it’s a great way to give to charity. It’s a great way to do something very practical. You meet the family, you meet the kids, you realize you’re changing their life forever. So that’s something I feel very passionate about. We happen to be getting an award tonight in New York, so it’s front of my mind. The other one would be, I made a personal life decision a long time ago to spend a bunch of time, winters down in Australia, so for many, many years we’ve spent our winters living in Sydney, Australia. So we’re about nine days out from leaving for Sydney right now. And it’s just kind of a life choice to take a couple months off and hang out at the beach. And we have a whole community down there. It feels great. We feel super grounded down there. And I encourage people to pick your places and live while you can live while you’re young. So that’s actually something we’ve been doing for a long time.
Jack Sharry: I love it. I keep thinking every time you tell me this, you have told us this before, but it’s worth sharing, actually both. Thanks for that great work that you do for the folks down in Mexico and also smart of you to take some time to just get away and get a different perspective on the other side of the world. So, love to hear both and I keep threatening I’ll do that someday too. Maybe I have to get off my butt and do that. So, Chip, thanks. This has been great as always. For our audience, if you have enjoyed our podcast, please rate, review, subscribe, and share what we’re doing here at WealthTech on Deck. We’re available wherever you get your podcasts. You should also check us out at our dedicated website, wealthtechondeck.com. All of our episodes are there along with blogs and curated content from many folks around the industry. Chip, thanks again. This was real pleasure. I always enjoy this.
Chip Roame: You’re welcome, Jack. Thanks for having me back.
